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Wont start and keeps blowing starter fuse... 2017 petrol


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#1
Rostyle65

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Hi all, came across this forum whilst scouring the web for clues...

 

Yesterday my wife was out and stopped for about 10 mins, when she returned to the car the vehicle wouldn't start although lights etc were working

 

Called the AA who seemed to think it was ignition , as the barrel was moving around.Eventually he bump started the car and followed my wife home. The car was turned off but again wouldn't start with the key.

Today I checked the fuse and the 30 amp starter fuse had blown, i changed this and tried it again and immediately blew the fuse.

I put another fuse in and this time switched of the start/stop function before cranking but once again it blew ..

 

My electrical knowledge is limited but was wondering if there were any ides before i call an auto electrician out

 

Thanks in advance



#2
Daedalus

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I'd go with the AA man. The 30 A fuse is for the ignition key circuit to the starter motor solenoid. The starter motor itself will draw ~ 150 A or more on large engines and diesels and will not be fused.

 

The purpose of the solenoid is to close the high amperage contacts to the starter motor and mechanically engage the pinion with the fly wheel.

 

As the fuse keeps blowing it suggests a short to ground in the ignition  key switch or by virtue of it being loose in its mounting


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#3
Rostyle65

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I'd go with the AA man. The 30 A fuse is for the ignition key circuit to the starter motor solenoid. The starter motor itself will draw ~ 150 A or more on large engines and diesels and will not be fused.

 

The purpose of the solenoid is to close the high amperage contacts to the starter motor and mechanically engage the pinion with the fly wheel.

 

As the fuse keeps blowing it suggests a short to ground in the ignition  key switch or by virtue of it being loose in its mounting

Thanks for the quick reply,

would that mean replacing the ignition assy as a unit ? would there be a way of checking with a basic AVO meter..

 

i took the steering column shroud off to look at the ignition switch and the reason for it appearing loose appeared to me that the assembly was held in place by a single pin allowing the barrel assy to pivot slightly..I couldn't  see a way of it being any more secure but ran out of daylight to see any further..

willl have another look tomorrow..



#4
Daedalus

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You can certainly use an AVO. The first thing I'd do is disconnect the connector and check each pin for short to the metal casing in all positions, I presume it is metal mounted to the cars body. That should also enable you to work out which is the starter solenoid pin if it tests ok..



#5
Rostyle65

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You can certainly use an AVO. The first thing I'd do is disconnect the connector and check each pin for short to the metal casing in all positions, I presume it is metal mounted to the cars body. That should also enable you to work out which is the starter solenoid pin if it tests ok..

Great thanks, i will give this a try today



#6
JLB

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2017 Sandero - wouldn’t that have been involved in the recall on faulty ignition switches? Is that perhaps the problem?



#7
Rostyle65

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2017 Sandero - wouldn’t that have been involved in the recall on faulty ignition switches? Is that perhaps the problem?

Do you have any more info or link to the recall? I have tried looking online but can’t find anything relating to this year/ model..



#8
Rostyle65

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You can certainly use an AVO. The first thing I'd do is disconnect the connector and check each pin for short to the metal casing in all positions, I presume it is metal mounted to the cars body. That should also enable you to work out which is the starter solenoid pin if it tests ok..



#9
Rostyle65

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You can certainly use an AVO. The first thing I'd do is disconnect the connector and check each pin for short to the metal casing in all positions, I presume it is metal mounted to the cars body. That should also enable you to work out which is the starter solenoid pin if it tests ok..

I have taken the connector off the ignition switch and checked for continuity from each of the 4 wires in the connector block. one of the 2 yellow wires seems to have a constant short to earth (constant buzz from AVO ). 

Any ideas where to go next from here..?

 

Really appreciate the help so far, feels like im getting somewhere...!

 

Thanks Stuart



#10
Daedalus

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I  was intending you to check the barrel not the wiring.

 

The wire that "seems to have a constant short to earth (constant buzz from AVO )" is probably the solenoid which will be normally a low resistance and the meter should be switched to resistance range to check if it is a complete short. The buzz is really for wires that are either short or open and quick preliminary tests.

 

Do you know how the AA man started the car? Did he perhaps use a direct feed to the solenoid which is a common mechanics practice and would confirm the working of the starter motor and solenoid if he did.



#11
Rostyle65

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I  was intending you to check the barrel not the wiring.

 

The wire that "seems to have a constant short to earth (constant buzz from AVO )" is probably the solenoid which will be normally a low resistance and the meter should be switched to resistance range to check if it is a complete short. The buzz is really for wires that are either short or open and quick preliminary tests.

 

Do you know how the AA man started the car? Did he perhaps use a direct feed to the solenoid which is a common mechanics practice and would confirm the working of the starter motor and solenoid if he did.

Ah ok, so by testing in each position would be the stages on the key eg cranking etc..

I will give it another check.

 

The AA man bump started the car apparently. would that be an option to eliminate the starter as an issue? using a jump lead form battery to positive side of the solenoid?



#12
Daedalus

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Unfortunately the term bump start is used generically.

 

You appear to know more about electrics than you let on.

 

If you are certain there is no short circuit in the wiring or you could disconnect the switch feed wire to the solenoid you could do as you describe. It is normally the high amp feed to the starter that is used to provide the 12 V but you can use the battery connection which ever is easier. Only do a touch contact as you want to be able to release quickly.

 

If you don't at least hear the solenoid click. You could have a faulty solenoid.

 

Found this video you can do the same insitue.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=BAjMO3Zu88s



#13
Rostyle65

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Unfortunately the term bump start is used generically.

 

You appear to know more about electrics than you let on.

 

If you are certain there is no short circuit in the wiring or you could disconnect the switch feed wire to the solenoid you could do as you describe. It is normally the high amp feed to the starter that is used to provide the 12 V but you can use the battery connection which ever is easier. Only do a touch contact as you want to be able to release quickly.

 

If you don't at least hear the solenoid click. You could have a faulty solenoid.

 

Found this video you can do the same insitue.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=BAjMO3Zu88s

Thanks for your help, i will continue the quest after I've picked up my daughter from school.

 

As for me knowing 'more about electrics than i let on' ....well, as they say a little knowledge is dangerous !

My knowledge items from  schoolboy and being taught how to wire a 3 pin plug. other than that it was fitting radio cassettes etc in to old 70's and 80's cars. (loads of crimping and insulation tape!)

 

The barrel didn't show any signs of a short in each position by the way..



#14
Roger

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Unfortunately the term bump start is used generically.

 

You appear to know more about electrics than you let on.

 

If you are certain there is no short circuit in the wiring or you could disconnect the switch feed wire to the solenoid you could do as you describe. It is normally the high amp feed to the starter that is used to provide the 12 V but you can use the battery connection which ever is easier. Only do a touch contact as you want to be able to release quickly.

 

If you don't at least hear the solenoid click. You could have a faulty solenoid.

 

Found this video you can do the same insitue.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=BAjMO3Zu88s

To me a "bump start" is pushing or towing the vehicle with it in second gear, with the clutch depressed and then releasing the clutch at say 5/10MPH to allow the car start, then depress the clutch again to regain control ! wink.png


My Stepway ? I'm lovin' it !! :D  :D 


#15
Daedalus

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You are not supposed to do that with cars with catalytic convertors as you risk of unburnt fuel poisoning the cat.

 

People do say bump start when they mean jump start and vice versa. I'm not sure what the term is for hot wiring the starter solenoid may be just that.



#16
Rostyle65

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He definitely bump started as he got some others to help push the car.

#17
Roger

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You are not supposed to do that with cars with catalytic convertors as you risk of unburnt fuel poisoning the cat.

 

People do say bump start when they mean jump start and vice versa. I'm not sure what the term is for hot wiring the starter solenoid may be just that.

I'm not recommending doing it, it is my understanding of a "bump start".

Connecting the two car batteries together via a donor car is my understanding of a "jump start", hence jump leads ! wink.png


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#18
Daedalus

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I would have thought he would have tried the solenoid first. How accessible is the starter motor? Or maybe he did not want to do that if he thought there was a short in the wiring.

 

Coils usually go open circuit rather than completely short circuit. I would disconnect the switch connection on the solenoid and meter the solenoid and if there is no direct short try the hot wire.



#19
JLB

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Do you have any more info or link to the recall? I have tried looking online but can’t find anything relating to this year/ model..

 

Here in France, Dacia is recalling Sanderos built between 1st September 2017 and 19 October 2018 for faulty ignition switches. This is from this month's issue of the French equivalent of 'Which' magazine, so not just hearsay. Might be worth pursuing with your dealer or Dacia UK. Check your build date.


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#20
Rostyle65

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I can’t even see the starter motor! Unfortunately not having a garage and it hammering with rain, it may have to wait!
I must be getting old...

Will try the dealer re recall on ignition switch

Just out of curiosity how would the cat be damaged by bump starting..?
Surely the engine is being turned over with ignition on would be the same as the starter cranking the flywheel..? Just a different method?




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