Excuse the spelling mistake Hear, not Here..

 

Check-out

Duster 1.5DCI Oil pressure/problems (oil came out through filter)

on this forum, Interesting!!!!

 

And didn't I here Renault merged with Nissan recently? there would be a coincidence ??

Renault and Nissan have a strategic alliance. Renault is providing the engine. Nissan will not merge with Renault until France sells its stake in the Renault.

""The Japanese will never accept to be part of an entity where the French state will be a shareholder of Japanese assets," Ghosn told analysts as he presented Renault's full-year results. "The day the French state decides to get out, everything is open."

France is Renault's biggest shareholder, with a 19.74% stake and a bigger share of voting rights.Reuters"

 

It is a bit more complicated than that;

https://group.renault.com/en/our-company/a-group-an-alliance-and-partnerships/our-alliance-with-nissan/

Mitsubishi is also now involved.

 

@Hadenough, first of all you have all my empathy for your problems with the Dacia and Renault's K9K engine. I fully understand if you are going to react by changing the car manufacturer.

Let me explain to you why Dacia might have lost you as customer (and Renault, Nissan, etc, too, since they share the same engine) and why your next choice might be more reliable, simply because of mathematical odds.

A bit of mathematics.... Say that a system, a car, an engine, has a 15% probability to have a fault in a certain period. This is similar with saying that out of 100 customers, 15 will return to the dealer in a certain time, with complaints about a certain fault.

I'm one of those 85 customers which have only minor complaints, nothing serious (like outdated maps in my navigation system, or rounded air vents incompatible with some cosmetic air refreshers). Unfortunately, you are one of the other 15 customers.

Say that one buy two cars, each with 15% likelihood to generate a fault. This is mathematics, but the likelihood that a buyer will have issues with BOTH of them is: 15 / 100 * 15 / 100. That is 2.25%. Much smaller than 15%.

Example 1: an angry Dacia customer, unhappy with its 15% reliability, says goodbye and moves to Citroen, or a Korean brand. So, 15% reliability of the 1st car, followed by 15% reliability of the 2nd car. The likelihood that the customer will fail also on the 2nd car is 2.25%. That is 7x times less than on the single 1st car. Thus, most likely the customer will be happy and say that the X brand (Citroen, Peugeot, whatever KIA, etc) is better than Dacia. Guess what.... A similarly unhappy customer from the same brand X that was unfortunate to be in the 15%, will move to Dacia, be luckier and declare Dacia to be the best car.

Example 2: an angry Duster customer will buy another Duster. The odds and the mathematics say that he will be happy with his choice. Only 2.25% odds to fail on the 2nd car.

Here is an example from a Citroen forum: "14 years driving Citroen cars first problem. Now an ex-customer. Citroen's procedures and customer services - the worst I have ever known. 2013 brought a new 1.2 vti-vtr+ C3 at Derby Citroen. After 10 months vehicle went into service area for recall. Found to have excessive crankshaft end float. Some cars had had their timing belts come off. Engine changed 5200 miles, clutch checked, no damage, perfect, re-fitted. Taken for second service May 2015 with a minor clutch judder. 10400 miles. Car serviced and taken for test drive by technician who confirmed judder problem. Citroen then rang me and told me they would have to check clutch to find problem. Silly me thinking all this rubbish regarding warranty and 3 years peace of mind was true. Result - new clutch fitted at a cost to me of £600. Massive argument, Citroen not interested."

In Germany, there are some records about manufacturer car failures www.anusedcar.com

Say that we are interested in the 2016 reports that track cars that are 2-3 years old

http://www.anusedcar.com/index.php/tuv-report-year-age/2016-2-3/572

You will see that on the top of the list you have the German cars (Mercedes, Audi, BMW) 2-4% followed by Japanese cars, around 5%. My car, Dacia Sandero (Stepway variant) has a 9.1% fault likelihood. Better than Kia Ceed or Hyudai i30. It is marginally beaten by Fords and Volkswagens, around 6-7%. Obviously, I pay significantly less on Dacia with comparable features than all the Fords and VWs.

You probably realize that, in order to improve reliability, all the manufacturer needs is money. So they take money from all 100 customers in our example by making the car more expensive, and improve the process such that instead of 15 unhappy customers, only 5 will fail. And it costs a lot.

Example 3: an angry Dacia customer will go to buy a Japanese car (Toyota or Mazda) or an entry level car from a premium German manufacturer (not VW). This customer will basically say: I had enough being "unlucky", I rather pay to have a better odds on the car reliability.

What I am saying is that when you go to "just another brand", you probably will be lucky but only because of mathematics. You did not improve much the fundamentals of the car quality. .... That is unless you picked a top German or Japanese car. And be prepared to pay a lot for those.

 

I cannot add anything here other than to sympathise with Hadenough. Two engine failures must seem like Enemy Action.

There are a few other posts from buyers who've been using the 'faithful old family garage' around the corner for servicing for the last twenty years and who are going to take the new Dac to them.

The independents might be more more cheaper than a main dealer, but also they might not have the latest advisories, and software updates. There's rarely any guarantee that they will use the correct RN0200 oil, other than hope, or fit sump plugs with a torque wrench, or check fault codes at each service, etc etc.

On the upside there are plenty of 2013 K9K's with more than 80,000 miles on them.

We do not have enough evidence to make further analysis of Hadenough's engine, but if he paid for a diagnosis, he should at least get a fault code printout and a determination of what went wrong.

Also we do not know if the new engine at 10K miles got new ancillaries like the turbo and oil feed lines, but it did last 68K miles, which is the frequent fail point for turbo bearings and pressure relief valves.

Commiserations to Hadenough.

 

Isn't it that this engine is also used by Nissan Qashqai, petrol and diesel?https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jan/28/nissan-qashqai-engine-failure-mechanical-oil-problems

Correct, Merc and Mitsu. Its nothing to do with the weight of the car vs the engine. Its more than likely nothing to do with Euro5 and Euro6 modifications required for compliance. But there's no excuse for s**t customer service.

 

Thanks all for your comments, most interesting reading..

I'm not up on all the tech of today, pretty much old school, when you could strip an engine and rebuild in a day, (including tea breaks), so many sensors ecu's relief valves, etc to go wrong. Once had a Meriva auto, gearbox kept dropping into limp home mode, sensor replaced four times by Renault (same branch) each time got a bill for £120, plus sensor £2.95 after it went again, fitted new sensor myself saved and 120 quid and sold it.

Thinking back to the first replacement, I think repso is probably on the button, nice shinny new lump, but the rest including turbo was dirty and looked as if it was all bolted back on the new engine, would surmise oil lines etc were originals too.

So thanks folks I'm learning a lot, wish i'd have joined earlier. Took a look at the Duster today, and I have a water expansion tank full of thick oil, but no water in the oil or ice cream in the rocker. it did start and ran, heavy knocking sound deep down, Missing, and that lovely blue smoke.

I have now bough a used Xtrail Artix, on a 58 plate, 166k miles on the clock, full service history, and it drives beautifully, My guys at my garage think they maybe able to get a used dci for the Duster fitted for £1500, as I still owe nearly 4k on finance it seems my best bet is to have that done, get what I can selling it, and paying finance off. Yes Mr fibble, no excuse for s**t customer service, thankfully I will never have to deal with them again.

 

Ooops, another typo, Megane, not Meriva (thats vauxhall)

 

" Took a look at the Duster today, and I have a water expansion tank full of thick oil, but no water in the oil or ice cream in the rocker. it did start and ran, heavy knocking sound deep down, Missing, and that lovely blue smoke."

Sounds like the oil cooler seals, (possibly in addition to other failure) there's a flat circular one on there which sometimes leaks as the engines age. Expansion tank fills with water/oil/mixture. It's usually a slow leak, but not always.

No-one seems to know whether the current DCi turbos are oil or water-cooled, or both but I believe they are oil-cooled.

Was there any oil left in the engine after the failure? (Dipstick check.)

 

" Took a look at the Duster today, and I have a water expansion tank full of thick oil, but no water in the oil or ice cream in the rocker. it did start and ran, heavy knocking sound deep down, Missing, and that lovely blue smoke."

Sounds like the oil cooler seals, (possibly in addition to other failure) there's a flat circular one on there which sometimes leaks as the engines age. Expansion tank fills with water/oil/mixture. It's usually a slow leak, but not always.

No-one seems to know whether the current DCi turbos are oil or water-cooled, or both but I believe they are oil-cooled.

Was there any oil left in the engine after the failure? (Dipstick check.)

Yes, dipstick shows oil half way between min/max, very thick & black

 

Yes, dipstick shows oil half way between min/max, very thick & black

This has me intrigued. If there's 50% thick black oil in the sump, oil in the coolant expansion tank and 'something' all over the top of the engine, yet a deep crankshaft/rod knock, that is mystifying.

When coolant gets into the oil, the oil in the sump looks like runny frothy cocoa.

The plot thickens.

 

Sounds of some crossover, over two engines

this engine #2 oil in coolant expansion tank, thick black oil on dipstick, loud knocking.

no water in the oil (runny frothy coca)

first engine had something (which was the contents of the sump) all over the top of the engine (oil pump failed)

hoping the plot un-thickens

 

Just getting my Duster serviced and something is wrong with a belt/tensioner that never goes wrong apparently and they don't have in stock and is back ordered and is coming from France. Mileage is 38600. As the guarantee has only just ended they are willing to cover 60% of the cost. Main issue is the lack of parts - that is three days now and still no news of an expected arrival or fix. Now stuck without a car. They say there is a back order policy that means I should be able to get a rental car but even that seems to take time.

Otherwise happy with the Duster and the 45+ mpg but this is frustrating.

 

Just getting my Duster serviced and something is wrong with a belt/tensioner that never goes wrong apparently and they don't have in stock and is back ordered and is coming from France. Mileage is 38600. As the guarantee has only just ended they are willing to cover 60% of the cost. Main issue is the lack of parts - that is three days now and still no news of an expected arrival or fix. Now stuck without a car. They say there is a back order policy that means I should be able to get a rental car but even that seems to take time.

Otherwise happy with the Duster and the 45+ mpg but this is frustrating.

Tomorrow will be one week without car. Still no news on part(s). No news on back-order policy replacement hire car. Told no courtesy car available. When they collected car they left a car parked outside. When reminded them that there is one parked outside my house they said they knew and that they could do with having the courtesy car back! Dealer is only about 10 minutes away yet they have no one to pick up the car? If they don't really miss it why can't I have they use of it? Re-enforces my complete lack of trust in dealerships and their disregard of the customer. Had issues with Ford dealerships which is why I have zero trust. Thought Dacia/Renault may be different but I guess not. Already spent £150 on car hire because I had to have one - house bound with out a car. Possibility that I will have to extend the hire further.

 

Sounds of some crossover, over two engines

this engine #2 oil in coolant expansion tank, thick black oil on dipstick, loud knocking.

no water in the oil (runny frothy coca)

first engine had something (which was the contents of the sump) all over the top of the engine (oil pump failed)

hoping the plot un-thickens

Here's the last update, My daughter decided to take on the Duster, bought a engine from a dismantler on a well known auction site for £650 from a 16reg Duster @ 8000 miles written off in a smash.

My local garage quoted £250 to remove and install new engine, on removing the old dci, they called me to say that the turbo was completely shot and that was what took out the engine, I contacted the same dismantler who still had the turbo for the replacement dci engine, and sent it 24hr courier for £200.

So the car is now back on the road running on engine #3.

what is most disturbing is that when engine #1 failed, Renault replaced it with a brand new dci, which took 9 weeks because of back order problems, but failed to replace the original turbo, knowing now as most here do, that these often fail around at 40k plus you would think Renault would have replaced.

Anyway my daughter has now a 13reg car back on the road for just over a grand, and not the 6k (and another 9 weeks wait) for a new one, and god knows how much Renault would have charged extra for a turbo.......

Ps the Xtrail with Nissan engine @145k is still running great....

 

Just getting my Duster serviced and something is wrong with a belt/tensioner that never goes wrong apparently and they don't have in stock and is back ordered and is coming from France. Mileage is 38600. As the guarantee has only just ended they are willing to cover 60% of the cost. Main issue is the lack of parts - that is three days now and still no news of an expected arrival or fix. Now stuck without a car. They say there is a back order policy that means I should be able to get a rental car but even that seems to take time.

Otherwise happy with the Duster and the 45+ mpg but this is frustrating.

Eventually got the car back from the service. Had a moan on the feedback email about lack of communication etc. Then got a phone call asking why I was upset. I explained about being put on hold all the time people never phoning back and the delay for parts. They explained the reason for the delay was that the fan belt needed replacing and that there were none in stock anywhere and that it was back-ordered from France. They then received it but they had ordered the wrong one so ordered the correct one and that was also on back order. Find it hard to believe that fan belts never fail and there are no in stock. Even though I have one more service/MOT on the plan I am really tempted to go elsewhere as the service was so bad and having to hire a car for a week as it wouldn't get authorised because of the order muck up.

Since the service we have done a trip to Germany and Belgium of about 1800 miles and was getting about 45mpg. Found it to be a great car for touring and carrying Belgian beer!

 

Short journey's will eventually gum it up periodacly give it a long run
You have to remember the 1.5dci goes in a lot of cars
Millions of the engine have been made

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